Friend of FAIRER interview: Thabiso Matsau

About Thabiso Matsau

Thabiso Matsau is Senior Learning and Development Manager at HaysMac, collaborating with leadership to embed diversity, inclusion and culture across the organisation. Since joining the firm, Thabiso has played a key role in shaping learning initiatives, inclusive leadership programmes and wider people strategy. He is passionate about representation, belonging and workplace culture, and has been heavily involved in driving HaysMac’s diversity and inclusion journey forward.

Fairness, data and continuous improvement

Thabiso emphasises the importance of using data to drive fairness and spot inclusion opportunities, ensuring to include all functions of the organisation.

"For me, fairness in the workplace starts with how we listen to our people and how seriously we take what they tell us. A big part of that comes through our regular engagement surveys, which give us insight into how people are feeling across the organisation.

"We run these surveys every year, and they are completely anonymised. They cover different areas like learning and development, inclusion, client work and overall employee experience. They give us a percentage score, but more importantly, they give us a sense of whether people feel they are being treated fairly and included in the organisation.

"When you turn percentages into people, it changes the conversation. It becomes about understanding that there are individuals in your organisation who may not feel fully included – and asking what more you can do.

"That mindset pushed us to look more critically at areas like recruitment, talent development and opportunity. We started asking ourselves important questions – are we attracting the right talent? Are our recruitment processes inclusive? Are we creating fair opportunities for future leaders from all backgrounds?

"Our managing partner, Natasha Frangos, often talks about incoming talent being our future leaders and you can already see that reflected in the organisation. We have an energetic leadership group and an average partner age of 44."

A FAIRER partnership, built on trust

Thabiso reflects on how a chance meeting led to a partnership between HaysMac and FAIRER, resulting in a DEI audit designed to better understand and strengthen inclusion across the organisation.

"When we decided to approach FAIRER for a DEI audit, it came off the back of our engagement survey process. Our diversity score was in the 80th percentile, but our inclusion score was lower than we wanted – at 78%. Despite this being a good percentage, we wanted it to be phenomenal. So, while we recognised that we were doing a lot of things well, we also acknowledged that there is always work to do.

"I attended an event where Dan Robertson was speaking and really connected with his perspective. We had a conversation after the event, which led to a coffee and the start of the partnership.

"What stood out for me was how natural the working relationship felt. I didn’t feel like I needed to explain our people or our organisation in detail. There was already an understanding of who we were and what we were trying to achieve, and that helped build trust quite quickly.

"The purpose of the audit was to look at where we were doing well, but also where there was still work to do. It helped us think more critically about inclusion across the organisation, including areas like recruitment, talent development and whether we were truly attracting and developing the right talent. It also helped us reinforce the idea that inclusion needs to be embedded into how we operate, rather than treated as something separate. As a result, our inclusion score climbed into the 80s."

"For me, the relationship with FAIRER felt very collaborative. It wasn’t transactional. It felt like a shared understanding that this is about progress and continuous improvement, and that’s what made it work for us."

Embedding inclusion into leadership and culture

Thabiso explains how HaysMac was able to achieve leadership buy-in by making inclusion a part of organisational values and culture.

"One of the most significant outcomes of the audit was the shift from inclusion being something separate to something fully embedded in how we operate as a business. That has required a real focus on accountability at leadership level. Partners and directors are now being held accountable for their visibility and presence at events. We communicate the events for the year in advance and ask leaders to block them out in their calendars because this work matters.

"We've also rolled out our partner behaviour charter, which fosters inclusivity at its core – and everyone has bought into this. In addition, we're focused on building inclusive leadership capability within our senior teams. Having difficult conversations around these topics is essential, because of the importance of awareness and education. Learning is at the core of my role; I’m always looking for ways to embed DEI into learning opportunities across the business.

"The audit played a big role in helping us embed inclusion more deeply into how we operate as a business. It has become part of how we work, and that accountability is really important."

Creating a workplace where people can be themselves

Thinking about authenticity and belonging at work, Thabiso explores how alignment between candidate values and organisational values can shape whether people choose to join and stay with an organisation.

"I believe that people stay in organisations when they can show up as their authentic selves every day. That principle has shaped a lot of our work across recruitment, assessment centres and employer branding. We considered everything. Are we using the right language? Are we offering additional support where needed? Are we creating a fair opportunity for people from different backgrounds?

"It was also really important for us to ensure representation in how we show up externally. It was brilliant to see the range of people involved – people from different backgrounds, different communities, neurodivergent individuals – it allowed us to connect with a much wider talent pool.

"We have seen a real impact from this. We saw a massive increase in applications, especially in South Africa. Candidates would come into interviews already aware of our awards, our events or things they had seen our people talking about online.

"In some cases, candidates would reference specific moments. One candidate told me they had seen me speaking at a Pride event and that it made them want to apply."

Moving beyond inclusion towards belonging

Looking ahead, Thabiso considers what’s next for HaysMac’s inclusion journey, highlighting that this work is continuous rather than complete.

"Looking ahead, I believe the next stage of our journey is belonging. This is especially important in the context of our UK and South Africa offices, where we are working hard to strengthen cultural understanding and connection across regions. We want our people in South Africa to feel like they truly belong – not like an additional service, but as one HaysMac.

"It’s about understanding cultural differences, learning from one another and finding ways to make people feel genuinely part of the organisation. One of the things I was very adamant about was understanding the firm’s approach to DEI before I joined. I needed to know where the organisation stood.

"And what stood out to me was the honesty. They acknowledged where they were, but they also said they wanted to improve. They said, ‘You can come in, work with us and help shape that journey.’ And they honoured it. For me, everything we are doing now is about continuous improvement. We are trying to build a culture where people feel seen, heard, included and ultimately like they belong."

A word from Laura

Laura Drakeford, Inclusion Partner at FAIRER, shares her key takeaways from Thabiso's interview.

Thabiso emphasises that fairness begins with listening to employees and using data to identify gaps in inclusion, remembering that metrics must reflect real employee experiences, not just statistics. DEI is an ongoing journey, so instead of treating good scores as success, HaysMac focused on what could still be improved. The partnership between FAIRER and HaysMac was built on trust and shared understanding, allowing the DEI audit to become a constructive process focused on progress and honest self-assessment. By seeking the support of experts, HaysMac was able to ensure its people strategy made an impact where it truly mattered.

If you'd like to be considered for an expert interview, or want to further discuss any of the themes covered in Thabiso's interview, please get in touch.