DEI expert interview: Peter MacDonald Hall (UCA)

In the latest of our expert interview series, we speak with Peter MacDonald Hall, Head of Equity, Diversity and Inclusion at the University for Creative Arts (UCA).

Q: What are you doing to tackle the backlash against DEI?

At UCA, one of our key priorities is deepening our engagement with the communities we serve—our students, our staff, and our wider local networks. With campuses in Farnham, Epsom, and Canterbury, we’re proud of the strong, longstanding relationships we’ve built in each of these areas. We’re actively working to strengthen those ties, recognising that our university thrives when it reflects and collaborates with the diverse communities around it.

A recent example of this is our participation in Canterbury Pride, where UCA staff and students came together to celebrate inclusion and visibility. Events like these not only affirm our commitment to LGBTQ+ equality but also create meaningful opportunities to connect with local residents, community groups, and businesses. It’s about embedding UCA as a vibrant, inclusive presence in the places we call home.

We’re also looking at our language. Obviously, the acronym ‘DEI’ might be seen as toxic at the moment, but we're definitely playing into that. In fact, we're adding to that. The one thing that we're all reprioritising is inclusion. I think historically we have looked at equality from a legal point and that's the bedrock, because we are a public institution and we’ve got commitments under the Equality Act 2010. But we're very much focused around the inclusion piece, and want to look at  belonging and, like many sectors, we're looking at the language piece, too. 

We’re going to focus on our culture as well, as culture underpins a lot of things – the internal culture at UCA but also in terms of how we affect the lives of our students and our staff going forward. Like many universities UCA is currently going through a huge restructure, so it’s an opportunity for us to pause, reflect, and home in on what we are doing well, but also what we want to be known for in the future.  

In my short tenure here, we’ve also created the Creative Arts EDI network from universities across the UK. The network is specifically aimed at the creative arts sector, not just higher education, because UCA is unique in that space and playing to its strengths. It's also good to get a sense of what other creative arts higher education institutes are doing, with the aim of sharing best practice and supporting one another – it's about coming together and collaborating.

We're also utilising some of our memberships. For example, Advance HE is good at advising the higher education piece, so we’re forming links there to make sure we're across key changes. 

The Supreme Court ruling on sex was paramount and impactful for the higher education sector. On our website we published a statement of support for UCA’s trans community, which we felt was very important.

When it comes to responding to backlash, I believe in the power of positive disruption. That means standing firm in our values and not retreating when challenged. At UCA, we take an evidence-based approach to our work in equality, diversity and inclusion—and we always will. But we’re also committed to deepening our impact. If an initiative isn’t making a meaningful difference, especially for our community, we must ask why and be prepared to adapt.

This includes looking closely at the student experience—not just recruitment, but retention. Creating an environment where students feel seen, supported and able to thrive is absolutely essential. That’s the measure of real inclusion.

Q: Do we need to rebrand DEI? Why (not)?

I wouldn't say rebrand, I would say pivot, because of what I said earlier about the language changing. There is a lot of focus around the Equality Act, which provides a robust foundation for what we do, so I wouldn't change that. That’s one area where I wouldn't pivot because it would confuse things even more.

And fundamentally, we need to keep in mind that within higher education there are lots of universities who are already committed to promoting inclusion and fostering positive work environments, which is really important for both staff and students.

There is also a global piece. We recognise that, because of international changes in immigration, student numbers are down, which has impacted on recruitment. But we also recognise this might not always be the case, so we need to maintain the consistency of the ‘DEI’ branding to help communicate that our aspirations are consciously inclusive. We want our students to know they are welcome here, valued here, and they're coming to a supportive environment. 

Q: Where have you seen inclusion make the biggest impact? 

Back in the day, I would have said somewhere like tech, maybe professional services, but I don't know. I wouldn't even say finance because a lot of firms have reigned back DEI.

Amazon, Google, Apple and McDonald's have also stepped away or rebranded, and those are the types of organisations that would have normally made the biggest impact.

Even the UK financial sector – which had huge gender and ethnic representation challenges – has stepped away from monitoring that because of what’s happening in the US.

But, if you're going to be an industry leader, you need to step up and stand your ground. And it's a shame that those institutions have responded in that way.

Q: Which industry do you believe is most successful at implementing DEI? Why? 

Who's been the most authentic? I would say tech because that industry has been open and transparent about showing its data. It hasn't been brilliant, but it collected data historically and has really addressed skills gaps and retention, playing into that diversity of thought concept. 

For example, if we look at the development of AI, which is global, that requires all communities to make it work. McKinsey’s research shows if you have diversity of thought in your organisation – if you're diverse and inclusive – it brings 25% higher innovation revenue.

When you look globally you stand in a better position, because if you employ people from across the world it gives you a true reflection, rather than allowing one demographic to dominate.

Q: What business area do you think is in most need of DEI training? 

I think the construction industry, where males make up the majority, is most in need of DEI training. From my experience, there’s an issue with on-site workers around gender bias and how it plays out. Some staff feel that male and females have fixed roles, and this needs to be challenged. On top of that, the male suicide rate in construction is high, so what are we doing about  mental health inclusion to support men who are going through tough times? You don’t hear about that. 

And that leads me to other areas like transportation and logistics, whose disability declaration rates are low.

Q: Who do you think should lead DEI policy within an organisation? 

It’s always been leadership. If they're not walking it, talking it, breathing it, if it's not core to who they are or being authentic, then it won't go anywhere. 

In my position as head of EDI at UCA I get leverage by talking to the University’s Joint Acting Vice-Chancellors’, Professor Mark Ellul and Professor Melanie Gray. I have biweekly meetings that allow me to have these safe conversations with them. We discuss our aspirations for the university going forward, but if I didn't have that leverage or opportunity that wouldn’t happen. 

Also, our executive board plays an important role as they're very supportive. Beyond that we have the University’s People and Culture team, management, and our staff networks, as well as our student union all supporting and delivering on EDI policy.

Q: What is your biggest hope for the DEI profession? 

That's a big question. My biggest hope for the profession is around professionalisation. We need to pause and reflect. There's been a huge backlash against innovation. Some would say it's about profiteering about who and what we do to deliver the services. But I think it’s about being professional and being recognised for the value that we bring to the workplace, because it's a unique set of skills.

Professionalisation is about coming together and being evidence-led rather than passion-led. Lots of my peers are quite passionate about certain protected characteristics, but to be an effective DEI lead, you’ve got to be passionate but knowledgeable as well. You’ve got to know how to navigate, handle finances, and be influential. If we could get professionalised and recognised that would be extremely effective.

Q: What’s the one thing you feel has been most neglected in the world of DEI? 

I think it's about making real, tangible change, but that takes time. You can't do it overnight, it’s about getting genuine buy-in. If we had authentic buy-in and understanding, then this country wouldn’t be in the position we find ourselves in. I'm not talking about the States, because that's been a direct attack, I don't understand why DEI has been seen as a threat, but it has. I think it's about how we collectively get measurable impact and that’s a challenge. 

Also, demonstrating the impact of having a DEI lead in an organisation. It clearly has an influence because younger generations are now looking towards DEI and seeing that it’s fundamental to who they are and how they operate. Here at UCA, I'm quite privileged to be in that position – to be able to see and feel DEI through the way our students act and behave. People need to feel that they belong, and they won't do that if you just stay in the box or you’re acting in a way that's not genuine.

Q: If you could mandate one thing for organisations’ DEI policy, what would it be? 

 True inclusion is everyone's responsibility. It starts with each of us asking, 'If it's to be, is it up to me?'—and leaning in. I recently spoke with a colleague about an organisation that had no formal policy yet fostered a genuinely inclusive culture. Their behaviours weren’t driven by documentation—they were lived, shared, and embedded organically. It raises an important question: do we always need a policy to lead with inclusion, or can culture itself be the catalyst?

I was also listening to the d&i Leaders podcast, where the conversation turned to the state of DEI in 2025. One speaker highlighted a troubling trend: organisations winning awards for their DEI work, while their internal culture tells a very different story. Recognition should follow real impact—not precede it. We must fix the culture first and let the accolades reflect that authentic progress.

Too often, organisations chase visibility, spending thousands on award tables and branding, when that same investment could be redirected into meaningful community engagement. Imagine what £10,000 could do if reinvested into local initiatives that support equity and belonging. That’s where real change happens.

Q: What do you think the future holds for DEI?

With change comes challenge—but also opportunity. In moments of uncertainty, we have a chance to reaffirm why we do what we do. It’s worth asking ourselves: Why bother? Why take on the pressures and complexities that come with this work? Because it matters. And while it’s not always easy, it’s deeply necessary.

This is also a moment to pause, reflect, and ask: Can we do things better? Can we do things differently? There’s strength in that kind of introspection. Progress doesn’t come from perfection—it comes from a willingness to evolve. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with questioning our approach if it leads to greater impact and deeper inclusion.

Want to discuss any of the topics mentioned in this interview? Get in touch with us for a complimentary consultation.