Friend of FAIRER interview: Joanna Shackleton

From diversity and inclusion to culture

Inclusion is becoming part of a broader conversation about culture and experience. For Joanna, that means turning values into action.

"I do think there’s been a shift from talking about diversity and inclusion to culture. I think that is now the focus for HR teams and for leadership teams, because culture ultimately is what every individual is experiencing, no matter where they are or who they are.

"Most recently, we’ve looked at how we can make our promotion process more structured, consistent and ultimately, more inclusive. We’ve worked really hard on the compensation process, being more inclusive, making sure there’s impartiality with everything that we are doing. We're constantly making sure that we are keeping abreast of the evolution of people practices.

Ultimately, what we are striving to do is make sure that the organisation is credible and that we're doing things that we say we are doing. We talk about how important our culture is, so how are we evidencing that? It's about being authentic rather than just having value statements on the wall."

Making inclusion part of the employee lifecycle

Embedding inclusion means looking at the whole employee journey. Joanna shares how data can help identify where change is needed.

"DE&I should be fully embedded and fully integrated into everything we do. It should not be a standalone function.

"We’ve used the changing employment landscape as a good reason to tighten up recruitment. We’ve never really had to, but because we’re bigger and because we need to evolve, we’re now looking at diverse panels, consistency of questions, robustness of feedback, and scoring of interview responses. The evolving landscape has helped us to shape that process in a different way.

"We look at every stage of the lifecycle through the same lens now. Are we promoting? Are we progressing in the right way? What have we missed? Why are they leaving? This approach gives us the information and data to start to drill down and look at every process through a different lens.

"It’s a constant evolution. It’s not a quick fix or one-size-fits-all. We will never keep our processes unchanged because we know that we need to move with the demands of the world, but also as we evolve and mature as an HR function and as a business."

Why wellbeing and inclusion go hand in hand

Joanna explains why wellbeing and inclusion are closely connected, and why a holistic approach is the best approach.

"I think wellbeing is probably where there’s the closest link to DE&I, because everything is holistic and part of the full lifecycle, but it carries the most weight because we’re looking at the individual.

"An individual will go through so many different life stages and challenges. Whether they’re a parent, whether they can’t conceive, whether they’re going through menopause, going through a divorce, or they’re a carer for somebody else, we need to make sure that we respect that individual at whatever stage they are at. That comes to creating a culture where they feel that they can be honest and open.

"As part of the reframing of our DE&I committee, there is a connection to our wellbeing committee. The two go hand in hand and it’s very difficult to look at them in isolation. I think there’s a huge amount of overlap and there should be between those two subjects."

Listening, measuring and creating better leadership

Joanna shares how listening, feedback and accountability can help shape more inclusive leadership.

"We do need to listen to exit interviews, and listen to what is going on at any given time on the floor. What are those voices saying? Is there a common thread and what are we doing about it? We keep very close to the business as an HR team, so we can respond in real time rather than waiting for an exit interview or an engagement survey, which come with a time lag.

"For our leaders, we’ve created a leadership charter with underlying leadership principles. What we want to do now is look at how we’re going to measure every leader against the principles that they themselves believed were the right ones and helped to create. The first step is a self-assessment, so in our mid-year reviews, we’re encouraging all leaders to reflect on how they have behaved in line with those principles, to get a sense of where they think they are and where we can potentially help them. We are also encouraging our leaders to ask for feedback; we know this can be quite difficult for some people.

"We have had 360 feedback approaches in the past, but people haven’t felt that they can give honest feedback, and there were some examples when they have given honest feedback, the recipient hasn't always taken it well. We need to create an environment where feedback is seen as something genuinely valuable – something we actively ask for, rather than something that is imposed upon us."

A word from Laura

Laura Drakeford, Inclusion Partner at FAIRER, shares her key takeaways from Joanna's interview.

What stood out to me from my conversation with Joanna was her view that inclusion can’t sit separately from the wider people agenda. It needs to be embedded across the employee lifecycle, from recruitment and progression to wellbeing and leadership. I also loved her emphasis on constant evolution: listening to people, using data to understand what’s happening and being willing to adapt. Ultimately, it comes back to authenticity. If we say culture matters, we need to be able to evidence it.

If you would like to be considered for an expert interview, or want to further discuss any of the themes covered in Joanna's interview, please get in touch.