DEI expert interview: Andrea Callender (formerly Alexander McQueen)

In the latest of our expert interview series, we speak with Andrea Callender, former Director, Diversity and Inclusion, at Alexander McQueen.

Q: What are you doing to tackle the backlash against DEI?

My most recent role was at Alexander McQueen – a luxury fashion retailer and strong British brand. When I was there, we didn’t do anything specifically to tackle the DEI backlash. At the time, we took a step back and looked at what we were trying to achieve around inclusion, which was very much our focus. We decided to go back to basics and focus on what was particularly meaningful.

We wanted to be clear about how we were expected to behave with one another at work. So that was the driver – it was more about evolving organisational culture, and very much aligning at satisfying our clients but also being a brilliant place to work. 

One of the questions I asked in my interview for my role, was “Is this a reaction to George Floyd? Is that why you are creating this role?” The reason I asked is because that was a moment in time when there was a rush to create a lot of DEI roles. The CEO said, “No, we are being very thoughtful about what we want to have in this role and that’s about making sure that everyone has a great experience and is able to do their best work.” 

That was our approach – we wanted to be authentic and genuine and do something that was meaningful for us, even if it was simple. It had a lot of impact so we stayed true to inclusion and diversity helping us to live our values. When that is your driver, it creates a clear focus. We held each other accountable. Where you have been intentional about involving people along the way, I would say the conversation was not about DEI, it was about making sure everyone was treated with respect, that everyone felt able to do their best work and that everyone was clear about what this shift meant for them in their roles.

Q: Do we need to rebrand DEI? Why (not)?

DEI is DEI. This is an ongoing debate and there is still a lot of work to be done. If we are saying we are going to get really clear about what DEI means, and what it is – absolutely. That’s what has been lost and the language around DEI has become very emotional and threatening. When people hear about DEI they think it is a zero-sum game where somebody is getting something that I should have. But, I have never met somebody who does not want to do the right thing. 

Because we have a moment that is fresh in people’s memories – Black Lives Matter – then covid, DEI became mixed up in a lot of things that people are grappling with. The current uncertainty and turbulence are unsettling and looking back through history, any time there is uncertainty, people hunker down. It’s like a fortress where people protect what they know. 

I don’t think we should hide: DEI is DEI. But a thoughtful approach to DEI makes life better for everybody. 

Q: Where have you seen inclusion make the biggest impact? 

It’s hard to say – it is like advertising where you are not sure which bits of the advert are getting you the most customers. It is about cause and effect and if I look at McQueen in terms of a business impact, our chief commercial officer was very clear that DEI was intrinsic to the brand values. He made it part of people’s objectives – you’d have sales targets and also a piece around ‘how’. That really connected with people because they want to work for an organisation that shares their values. 

Every organisation I have worked with – I also worked with a regulator for all of the UK’s doctors –  when I look back and think about the business impact for them, it was about DEI consolidating and reinforcing their reputation for protecting patients, and also reinforcing higher standards for doctors so patients could be confident they are being treated fairly and objectively and getting the best care. 

When you start thinking closely about your impact on the societies you are in, you can see that being inclusive does pay dividends. You get those business advantages as part of a broader approach to being a great company, connecting with your customers and service users and being creative and innovative. 

Q: Which industry do you believe is most successful at implementing DEI? Why? 

I don’t think there is a best in class. Every company and organisation and sector is somewhere on a journey that is meaningful. To gauge and be able to say ‘this is best practice’ depends on what you were trying to achieve in the first place. It depends on a rigorous evaluation of impact and I think we should celebrate and recognise what might be a small win in the grand scheme of things when you compare it to another sector. 

What I am encouraged by, if I look across the landscape of UK plc, is I see most organisations are trying to do something. I don’t feel equipped to say which is the best sector because I have collaborated with companies and organisations who have worked on DEI for a long time and still have more to do. Assessing best practice depends on the circumstances, and the intervention that works for one company, even in the same sector, will not work for another because they are at a different stage of their journey and have different challenges.

Q: What business area do you think is in most need of DEI training? 

It depends on what the training is. Let me speak the heresy: I think a significant proportion of DEI training doesn’t really work. In some instances, it is outdated. The best DEI training in my experience is the training that is responsive to the challenges that the organisation is facing. 

Therefore, in terms of which function would need it, I can’t think of a function that wouldn’t need it. DEI training done well is about enabling people to be themselves and feel great about their experience of work. So, who wouldn’t need it?

The aim of DEI training is upskilling and to raise awareness of your objectives depending on what you are trying to achieve. I have worked across marketing, finance and retail teams and policy and I can’t think of a single team who would not need that fundamental understanding of DEI principles. 

Sometimes we do a sheep-dip approach because we think it’s of value to everyone and it’s not a case of this team needs this and that team might need it more. That doesn’t work.

Q: Who do you think should lead DEI policy within an organisation? 

It starts from the top. Leadership is critical – my role has always been to be an enabler. I have never, in all my DEI leadership roles, said, “I have driven it”. I enable, I support, I facilitate, but without leadership you are a dead duck. Leadership is what makes it authentic and makes people pay attention. 

Most people are being bombarded and by 10.30 on a good day, it has unravelled and many of us feel like we are fire-fighting. That means that most people want to be clear about the real priorities. If your leaders don’t think DEI is a priority at a time when people don’t have bandwidth to do things that are just add-ons, why should it be a priority? 

You need leaders who run with it and who see the advantage, who really believe in and see where DEI helps them and aligns with the kind of company they want it to be. 

Q: What is your biggest hope for the DEI profession? 

I remember when equality meant not asking a woman whether she was planning to have a family, then we had diversity, which was all about reflecting and numbers and then, inclusion, which was about everybody. Now, I think we are moving into post-inclusion which is going to be bigger, brighter and will evolve. 

My biggest hope for DEI is we move forward and build on the gains we have made so far and move it to the point where we reduced the fear factor and really embrace it and what the principles mean.    

Q: What’s the one thing you feel has been most neglected in the world of DEI? 

The one thing that has been most neglected is bringing people with us and the communication around that. I have seen brilliant DEI plans and strategies and then you talk to someone in the organisation and it has just passed them by. You realise you didn’t touch everyone with the policy. 

It’s about being clear about what it is and also, what it is not. It is not a campaign to give people something that is owed or due to other people. Not getting this right triggers some people saying, ‘Well, that’s why I didn’t get promoted, that’s why I can’t get a job. It’s because that other person is getting preferential treatment. There are all these people seeing the GP before me and getting a free house.’ You see this playing out in society, and of course, organisations are subset of wider society.

Q: If you could mandate one thing for organisations’ DEI policy, what would it be? 

I wouldn’t. There isn’t one thing – organisations are unique. It just wouldn’t be effective because it doesn’t take into account where the organisation is at and the thing that would make the most different in all the organisations I have worked at is different. Every organisation is different as is what they want to achieve and their challenges. 

Q: What do you think the future holds for DEI?

I don’t know. I think it will continue to exist but that we are going to talk about it differently for a while. I think we’ll talk about culture and being inclusive – who doesn’t want to be inclusive? We’ll talk about respect. 

When Gen Z come into the workplace, they expect DEI and they get a real shock when they see what it’s really like in certain places. They expect different things. 

We need to take a hard look at what the things are under a DEI umbrella that are having the most impact. I think in some shape or form organisations are going to continue the work – because it is needed. We are living in societies, whether we like it or not, that are diverse and changing. Difference isn’t going away.